|
Dating
Mar 15, 2009 20:21:11 GMT 12
Post by victa on Mar 15, 2009 20:21:11 GMT 12
no its not marriage that scares me its the potential idea that marriage may not exist in the earth to come. and how much you put into a marriage if its only while were on earth.
|
|
|
Dating
Mar 17, 2009 10:46:18 GMT 12
Post by patches08 on Mar 17, 2009 10:46:18 GMT 12
Ah I see... interesting.... As it mentions in the bible, god created man but realized he needed a companion, so he created a woman. And he told them to practically be fruitful and multiply.. so god speaks about the life they had then and there. Even though he knew what was to come, he didnt let them worry about that. So perhaps, just enjoy your life now and make the most out of some awesome opportunities. dont worry what awaits in the future.
|
|
|
Dating
Mar 19, 2009 19:04:56 GMT 12
Post by Richard G on Mar 19, 2009 19:04:56 GMT 12
I thought by the time I was married, I'd be an expert in guy-girl relationships. But, nope, they're still confusing. There's a lot of good discussion going on in this thread. I just want to offer one piece of advice.
In my little experience, marriage brings a lot of joy to life but it's also challenging. The 'success' of your marriage probably hinges on your (and your spouse's) character.
So rather than being primarily focused on finding somebody you want to marry, I'd encourage you all to work on becoming somebody who is marriage material.
|
|
|
Dating
Mar 20, 2009 18:11:24 GMT 12
Post by patches08 on Mar 20, 2009 18:11:24 GMT 12
That is actually a really good point.
|
|
kdubs
New Member
Posts: 33
|
Dating
Mar 22, 2009 22:04:45 GMT 12
Post by kdubs on Mar 22, 2009 22:04:45 GMT 12
now I see a lot of good in this thread but so often there is a struggle once you find that person or start dating that is really almost avoided or shamed aside because it is awkward to talk about. well since i'm really not as bold as some may think, and don't want to ask any advice from the "wise" people at church, I looked to an old friend where one usually runs to for odd questions.. and just about everything else!!.. GOOGLE!!! Anyways I found this Christian writer that had some sweet points on that "touchy" subject (no pun intended) HOW FAR IS TOO FAR!??.. boundaries and all that jazz for Christian Couples! net-burst.net/singles/petting.htmit's a great read but is kinda long. But I know it has helped my relationship and shed some much needed light on it!!
|
|
|
Dating
Mar 23, 2009 16:56:32 GMT 12
Post by victa on Mar 23, 2009 16:56:32 GMT 12
yeha its a good topic and one that is could be talked about a bit more. personally it comes down to a few things in my opinion.
-your own personal strength in self-control -your partners self-control -your understanding of why no sex before marriage is in the bible. and why you shouldnt have sex before marriage.
all these are of absolute importance in understanding before you set your boundaries.
for me its also a noteworthy confession that my strength in this area (that is my absolute affirmaty in no sex before marriage) is mainly set in my understanding of why your not having sexbefore marriage that is to claim this concept ideal 100% to yourself reasoning. and in no ways try to or think you can justify yourself to having sex before marriage.
god has set the wall with no sex before marriage, and now we have to establish with our wisdom(and personalitys) how close we place our picket fence to gods wall. do we put it right againts it? or do we set it back 500m, 1000m 14567kms?
now in the reading it sets out some barriers that i think are insane, the idea is there not to get to a point where you cant control yourself but you can go too far and develop an unhealthy non-sexual life. for example in one issue of soul maggazine therre was a poll which was when do you think its ok to kiss your girlfriend and some people maybe 20% said when your married. now that inself is an admirable feat but is this extremetity necessary? not in my opinion. maybe if kissing is so sexually provokative that you may not be able to stop at kissing then sure dont kiss before you marry but for most people i dont think that is the case. i think the same can be said for hugging your girlfriend.
an important issue is also that your relationship doesnt become souly physical. which can happen if your activities with your girlfrined/boyfriend become too regular/intense.
keep in mind we are sentuial beings so sensation can be treated as a drug the more you do something the more you get used to it (like kissing, like holding hands) and the more intense feels you need to get that kick and thus leading you into more intense physical activities (but still not sex).
in my time that i have been out of a relationship its crazy how much i miss kisses, holding hands, and hugging. somthing that is a good example which shows how we underestimate the intamacy of holding hands, hugging, kissing. its all a matter of where you are at in your headspace. what are you thinking when your holding hands, kissing? hugging? important questions to ask.
in setting boundaries its strictly between you and your partner and how you are going to up hold honoring god in your relationship. i dont think we need to go extreme and not kiss our partner untill were married. but i think the danger is significant the further you go with phycial intamacy without actually having sex. the extent you go is very debatable and will vary from couple to couple but its about self -control, owning the concept of no sex before marriage, and respecting each others boundaries weather its holding hands , or kissing.
any thoughs on my opinion?
|
|
|
Dating
Mar 23, 2009 17:00:17 GMT 12
Post by victa on Mar 23, 2009 17:00:17 GMT 12
sorry one of those lines should read the more intense feelings you.....not feels(=()
|
|
|
Dating
Mar 24, 2009 6:18:53 GMT 12
Post by Christina on Mar 24, 2009 6:18:53 GMT 12
Here is a way of looking at it.
Exodus 20:14 says "You shall not commit adultery" So if you were married what would you count as committing adultery with someone else? Could you kiss someone who wasn't your Wife/Husband? Could you hold hand with someone who wasn't your Wife/Husband? Could you feel up someone who wasn't your Wife/Husband? Would you count that as adultery?
See I think that sometimes we take adultery as simply having the physical act of Sex with someone, but it's more than that. And want would you not want your future husband or wife to watch you do with an other person? Back in the day there wasn't really the whole concept of dating so they didn't really have to consider how far is to far. But, I'm pretty sure a couple of Jewish kids having a snog round the back of temple would have been a big no-no!
Also the point is NOT how far can I go - seeing how far we can get to the sex line without crossing, it shouldn't be that at all. Thats looking at Sin in the face a screaming " bet you can't catch me!". We should be trying to live Holy and God pleasing lives, putting his desires above our own not playing with fire. Don't use trial and error to find out how far is too far, Trust Me! That does not work out. The Mind is a battlefield (cliche I know, but true), and unfortunately there are times that we lose. 1 Corinthians 6:18 says to "Flee" from sin - is fleeing sin seeing how close you can get without getting it?
|
|
victrosity
New Member
" I just want you to know who I AM "
Posts: 36
|
Dating
Mar 24, 2009 8:03:29 GMT 12
Post by victrosity on Mar 24, 2009 8:03:29 GMT 12
if i was with my wife and i kissed another, held hands with another, felt up another, or even thought of another or checked out another i would deff consider that as adultry both dishonoring to god and to my wife. no doubt about that.
yeah you pointed out what i was not cautious enough to point out that is is deffinalty not a matter of how far can we go if i was god i would absolutly find it disgrace ful if a human was to go to the limits of the law but not break it because they have already broken the law in their attitude.
i dont know how it is for girls but its most deffinality a chaotic mental battle for me (and guys in general) sometimes.
to flee sin is to energetically/fearfully get yourself away for committing sin at a point of weakness. as well as to set up precautionary meassures (clear cut boundaries) to elimate the risk we need to put into persepective who we sin against. when we have sex before marriage and people go on about oh i feel so broken and torn and like i cheated my wife. which is an obvious consequence. but we have really cheated on god, who has this scared marriage between us and him. its obvious that to get into sexual sin for the sake of tingly feelings or even to make your partnre happy is a very dangerious way to treat a relationship and to treat god.
in my thinking i cant stand it when i hear stories of how christians who have pledged this obstinance fail to see it through. it breaks my heart, namely because i think people dont understand the beauty in this concept that christ/god has given us and so there doing this because its a "good idea" or something to aspire to which such a foolish way of looking at it.
but in saying that i have also failed in my thoughts but not in my action so as christ said so clearly and as he correctly set the example of how a relaitonship with god really looks like. i have failed in this just as bad as anyone else though my thoguhts and i hate that, i hate that so much. and thats where the danger lies people judge the physical act what they can see and neglet to remember its the persons attitdue that evokes and results in the actions they carry out.
and i think the worst thinng we could do is to lower to de-holy,de-honor,de-throne gods wisdom in this matter by not taking it seriously. but does that mean we go to the point of no kissing, hugging , hand holding before marriage? i still think my answer is no. does it end at those things before prior to marriage i think im more inclinded in that sense.
|
|
kdubs
New Member
Posts: 33
|
Dating
Mar 24, 2009 21:32:22 GMT 12
Post by kdubs on Mar 24, 2009 21:32:22 GMT 12
"Exodus 20:14 says "You shall not commit adultery" So if you were married what would you count as committing adultery with someone else? Could you kiss someone who wasn't your Wife/Husband? Could you hold hand with someone who wasn't your Wife/Husband? Could you feel up someone who wasn't your Wife/Husband? Would you count that as adultery?" Christina I see no problem with kissing and holding hands while dating someone. If you are married or even have a partner then who in their right mind would go and do anything with anyone else, or thing is (for if you think lustfully about someone you have already committed adultery in your mind). So of course the mind is a battlefield. It is really a personal thing as to what is between you and God. But what I would like to do is discuss what peoples opinions are about where people draw that line. I remember reading this girls teen dating book i got from a Christian girls conference with a friend and one thing that sometimes floats back into my mind is what do you consider sex? There of course are things that are not "sex" as we think immediately, but if it has sex in the name will it not be considered as it? I just never really know what to think about other forms of it... there are no clear rules about this or maybe I am being ignorant and not picking up on them. It's like the example before (which reminded me of something Jeremy once said) when you have a rule and you may not be breaking it but you do everything else before that. Like saying "don't punch anyone" so you kick them instead.. it's the spirit of the rule which is broken and it comes down just to being cheeky or doing it your own way. soo....... what do you guys think about how far is too far? Starting this post before, I had been inspired to change and am currently resetting my own boundaries and pushing them back towards God's. It will be a hard time but God will give us strength in the times we need and will help us when setting rules and establishing "danger situations". I feel like a mom looking after my myself and totally not like a typical hormonal teenager anymore... which I love because it's breaking the mold of partying and randomly hooking up... which sadly you hear a lot about in most cultures... kids these days sorry if i ramble or dont make sense. my brain has shut down for the night. ;D
|
|
victrosity
New Member
" I just want you to know who I AM "
Posts: 36
|
Dating
Mar 25, 2009 6:45:07 GMT 12
Post by victrosity on Mar 25, 2009 6:45:07 GMT 12
ok in light my one relationship, and looking back at it i would confidenly say that before marriage kisses,huggs, and holding hands are golden foundations that you can build on after marriage. those three things i would be happy with the rest of my life lol. thats my opinion.
|
|
|
Dating
Mar 25, 2009 9:30:46 GMT 12
Post by zoë-life on Mar 25, 2009 9:30:46 GMT 12
Hey guys,
Loving that you are open enough to talk about this stuff, and are wrestling with this whole idea because yeah its a biggy. Its something I really struggled with. I was sexually active before I became a Christian and became even more so after. I've learnt the hard way I guess I want to share what I've learnt through my journey. Sex is great - even outside of marriage its still exciting and feels awesome and all that. Thats what makes it so hard to understand why its wrong (is it just cos God said so) or how far is too far. But the thing with sex outside of a marriage commitment is that its full of uncertainty. Its full of sin because thats not how God created sex to be. When we have sex we become 'one flesh' it creates an intimate connection, togetherness with that person. Those guys that I was with before Mark - I became one flesh with them in a physical, emotional and spiritual way - even though at the time I didn't really think about or even realise it in that way. But thats why breaking up with someone you've had sex with is SO much harder - you're connected. The world around us really cheapens sex. It portrays it as something its not and it becomes very self seeking, about feeling good, keeping the guy/girl,fulfilling the lust inside us etc - for me it was feeling good about myself and keeping the guy. When really sex is about the other person - your love and commitment to them, its an intimate way of expressing that. Real sex is about Real love, God love not world love and in 1 cor 13 it says this love is patient, it preservers, it rejoices in truth. Its so easy to get fooled with what the people around us and the media are showing us, but thats really just a cheap imitation - its not the way God designed it, its second rate sex - we just don't realise it cos we don't know theres something better. God doesn't want us to not have sex before marriage because its just some random law or whatever, its because he wants us to have the best sex ever! and that comes with waiting - I kinda think part of the reason its so special is that what an awesome gift to be able to give your husband/wife - I waited, it was hard, I was tempted, but before I met you I loved you enough to wait, I love God enough to follow and obey even when everything around me tells me I'm crazy.
Sorry turning into a novel, but this topic is one that is really important to me. With the whole how far is too far. You're right in that its really kinda foggy lines but if you look up these vs 1 Cor 6:13; 1 Thess 4:3-4;Eph 5:3; 1 Cor 6:18-20. It doesn't talk just about sex, it talks about sexual sin, that starts long before the actual act of sex. Those vs talk about how we need to be in control of our bodies and when we get into situations where we start thinking with our bodies/hormones rather than our minds - we've gone too far. We've opened the door and its so easy to keep going and harder to stop. And maybe the first couple of times you'll stop there, but then hey a little further won't hurt, and then you're either feeling really guilty or justifying it to yourself. And maybe you'll 'try harder' but once you've opened yourself up to those feelings its so hard to close that door - better to not open it in the first place. Its also in our mind like you guys have been talking about. For guys (I'm generalising here) its more of a visual/physical kinda war that they are guarding against, where us chicks its more of an emotional/physical kinda war. But we need to be guarding not only our physical acts of sexual purity but also our emotional and visual as well. SO much more I could keep rambling but will stop there. If you wanna ask me anything about this kinda thing just do it - I'm pretty open about it and don't shame too easily!! I just want to say if you've started down this track, feel you've already gone too far. You can go back, you can be sexual pure - you have a harder road ahead of you but its worth it. Talk to Jesus about it, and feel free to come talk to me if you want to.
|
|
victrosity
New Member
" I just want you to know who I AM "
Posts: 36
|
Dating
Mar 25, 2009 14:57:26 GMT 12
Post by victrosity on Mar 25, 2009 14:57:26 GMT 12
i have a quesiton. two parts A) what happens if one has been faithful and not had sex before marriage but the other person has then that special gift is "one-way" in a sense. and while i know that sex is an expersion of your love to the other person. if i was in that situation no matter how much i loved the person i would still feel really bumbed that they didnt have that to bring to the relationship. i say that cautiously understanding that you cant underestimate the depth of impact it would already have had on the other person, so would it be right to be bumed?
B)secondly how hard was it going throught your christian life knowing that the next man you might meet would have to know that you had already had sex out of marriage? i also understand that this is thing between you and god so if you sorted it out with god could you approach this topic with your future to be husband in confidence and in the knowledge that as a result he might turn you down. (depending on how strong people feel on abstaining).
this brought another question to mind if you met a guy in the future (with the fact that you slipped up and had sex out of marriage) and you loved him but he turns you down because you had sex out of marriage. is he
A)taking this no sex before marriage too seriously? B)in full right to do so C)or is he not also contributing equally by not having unconditional love?
or what? now i understand that this for some people is a sensitive topic so i am making sure that i am asknig these questions (some specific to your case zoe) out of upmost respect and with no intension to make you feel bad or anything like that, i dont think of you anyless because you had sex out of marriage. just incase as in common with texts you get the wrong tone or anything.
cheers love to hear your insight
|
|
|
Dating
Mar 26, 2009 8:04:02 GMT 12
Post by zoë-life on Mar 26, 2009 8:04:02 GMT 12
Hey Dude, No offence taken to anything you wrote, all really good questions and statements. Although for someone in the mix of it all right now those questions could be pretty raw. But its good to ask them. When I was studying I was talking with my friends about love and life and they said something to the effect of 'My husband better have waited, if I have he should have too' and honestly that did make me feel really stink (even though they meant no judgement towards me). Its a really scary thing to have to tell someone that you're with because you never know how they are going to react. I told Mark early on in our relationship because if it was a deal breaker with him, then I wouldn't be too emotionally attached. But he actually thanked me - thanked me for trusting him enough to share that with him. Also he said that he knew somehow that he was going to end up with a girl who had a bit of a past, he also told me that in Christ I am made pure, holy, dead to my old self - if I committed this part of my life to God and work through it with him - I can become like a 'second time round' virgin kinda thing. Mark and i also met up with a friend a few years ago who had been dating this sweet chick and they were really in love and he wanted to propose but he hadn't shared that part of his story with her, he was scared, really scared cos he knew how she felt about it and was worried she would leave him. But he did pluck up the courage and they are now happily married. In response to your questions I don't really know. Each couple is going to be different, how they react will be different - I'm not sure that there is a 'right way' to respond. But I do know that Jesus is all about love, grace and forgiveness. People stuff up, how and why they stuff up is different in every case. In a lot of ways you can be destructive to the future sexual relationship with your husband/wife without having had sex before. For example if a guy has a thing with porn, that can lead him to view women as objects (not as a person) which can then cause him to look at his wife as a sexual object rather than a person whom he loves. Just because you've had sex before marriage doesn't mean with your husband its going to be anything less. Yes you're not going to experience that 'first time' together and honestly that is something that if I really stopped and thought about I would be gutted about, it does suck. But 'forgetting what is behind me and pressing forward' - I can't dwell on it, Mark can't dwell on it. He loves me for who I am, not what I have or haven't done. I did come into the relationship with baggage in the area of sex and it did make that area of our relationship a lot harder when we were dating, but God's bigger. I don't know if any of that really answers your questions - hope so but just ask again if I haven't!
|
|
|
Dating
Mar 26, 2009 17:21:55 GMT 12
Post by victor on Mar 26, 2009 17:21:55 GMT 12
nah it totally does, thanks heaps for your honesty
|
|